Fly Lah!

Hi,
I have the pleasure to announce that we offer the possibility of a fully JAR training (Integrated JAR CPL /IR with MCC and JAR frozen ATPL). Our JAR integrated course is a fast track training (65 weeks).
Who we are:
FTO Holdings comprises 2 JAR approved schools (approved by UK-CAA);
- Atlantic Flight Training (Coventry- UK)
- AYLA (Aqaba- Jordan)
Both schools are organised in complementarity in order to provide a large range of JAR training.
Our current JAR approval is UK/FTO 06 valid until 2011.

JAR Integrated Training
It is the JAR integrated course as per appendix 1 to JAR FCL1.160

To be noticed that it is a fully JAR training under UK-CAA approval (And not from UK-CAA International). The difference being that UK CAA International has not been authorised to utilise the JAR question Bank. Consequently UK-CAA International has made its own question bank similar but not identical to the JAR UK-CAA one.
As consequence if you attend the UK-CAA international examinations, you are not attending a JAR examination but a JAR compliant one.

It is tricky and confusing, but students should be aware.....
UK CAA International is a small office in charge of organising the examinations for some Civil Aviation Authorities which have contracted a support from UK-CAA through long term agreements. UK CAA International has to be considered as different from to UK CAA.
UK-CAA is fully involved in the European Civil Aviation Authorities Integration, but UK-CAA International is not.

Example
Currently, our school AYLA is providing 2 different CPL/IR (with frozen ATPL) modular trainings;
- A Jordan CPL/IR with examinations set by UK CAA International and monitored by Jordan Authority
- a JAR CPL/IR with examinations set by UK-CAA, flight training finished in Coventry (UK)

In fact the syllabi are similar but if the examinations/ Flight tests are set by UK-CAA international/ Jordan authority you get a Jordan licence, if the examinations / Flight tests are set by UK-CAA you get a proper JAR licence.

Can you get equivalence from one system to the other? negotiations are on-going but UK-CAA has to report to other European Authorities and equivalence from Jordan to JAR is far to be....

We currently working on the pricing of our JAR integrated training, cost should be slightly higher than a traditional Malaysian training, but as done in a shorter period, including MCC and FULLY JAR.
Please do not hesitate to send me private messages for more information.

JAR FTOs

Silly JAR again...

The Malaysians are unlikely to go for UK-JAR flight training outside of Malaysia.

Non-compliance at all!

Hersheys,
I disagree with you...
Some private students may be interested because it opens employment possibilities abroad and taking into account the New Malaysian licence, conversion JAR to Malaysian should be easy. The Malaysian Market is currently shrinking but some other are still open.
With a Malaysian licence only your employment possibilities are only limited to Malaysia...With a JAR licence you may have a chance in some other countries (Middle East, Singapore, Hong Kong....): you increase your employability.
The JAR Integrated is permitting a significant reduction in cost and in time. More, Atlantic Flight training is a worldwide class school with our notes distributed worldwide by JEPPESEN. When we announce 65 weeks for the whole training (including MCC), we are used to respect our engagements. To be graduated quickly can be a huge saving.

-- Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:09 pm --

A small calculation....
As some malaysian FTO are used to be lagging and we are used to deliver on time...
If a cadet is employed 6 months ahead of others, it is
- immediately a plus 6 month salary which balance the cost difference: ((JAR + Conversion)- Malaysian Licence)
- a gain in seniority which can be decisive later (promotion to a Commander position ahead of his fellow students)
- less risks of unemployment as a Proper JAR licence opens more Job Market
Particularly, there is a nearly permanent demand for Flight Instructors with JAR Licences, So low time JAR licence holders have better chances....

JAR FTOs,

Some private students may be interested because it opens employment possibilities abroad

So does Malaysian licence - no different !!

taking into account the New Malaysian licence, conversion JAR to Malaysian should be easy.

DCA Malaysia will switch to JAR latest by 2011 and 2010 will be the transition year from CAA (UK) to JAR. An AIC with regard to this matter will be issued soon. May I know what so special with your organisation?

With a JAR licence you may have a chance in some other countries (Middle East, Singapore, Hong Kong....): you increase your employability.

So does with current Malaysian's licence - There are more than 200 Malaysian pilots are working in Middle East, probably half of the total pilot force in Singapore are Malaysian licence holders and quite a number of Malaysian pilots in Hong Kong are holding Malaysian licence. All of them were given one-to-one licence conversion. Please justify your statement.

My conclusion

1. It is not the LICENCE but EXPERIENCE that counts ...... You may hold multiple pilot licence from any agency around the universe but with 200 hrs experience, it is very UNLIKELY any legacy carriers will employ you.

2. If one is holding an ICAO licence (be it CAA, JAR, FAA, Canadian CAA, CASA, Malaysian DCA etc) issued by any of the ICAO contracted countries, then the other contracted country should honour the licence in exchange to local licence in order to fly the local registered aircraft. I am sure you are aware of that.


The Unlearned

Malaysian DCA is not going to JAR, The examinations are set by UK CAA INTERNATIONAL and not UK-CAA. Please check this important point. It is a new Malaysian Licence close to JAR but not JAR.

To your Conclusions

1) There are 2 different situations;
- you have an ATPL with 1500 hours of multipilot aircraft experience, and in such a case employers give an equal opportunity to any licence however some employers do prefer a JAR one. Middle east Malaysians are experienced pilots with an ATP
- you are an ab-initio pilot. In such a case most countries protect their nationals, however in few countries like Middle East ones, you may have an opportunity: first, you have to convert your licence in a local one to be considered. If you are bearer of a JAR one it is very easy and very limited. Other Licences conversion are more heavily loaded. If you are a young flight instructor, you will have more opportunities if your licence is JAR.
2- Wrong. Holding of an ICAO licence you can fly only aircraft registered in the Country of your licence. But as per Chicago Convention, you can fly those aircraft to any ICAO Countries. If you want to fly an aircraft registered in an other Country, it depends on bilateral agreements and as general rule a Licence Conversion is required. In case of leasing, a temporary licence may be issued by Country of the registered aircraft. My own experience: I am European, my Airlines (European) has leased some US B747 and I have flown them with a temporary FAA licence.

A salesman will never say the other items sold by the competitors is better just because they want their items to be the only one in the market. DUH

The interests of Malaysian Civil Aviation Industry may be no perfectly the same than students'interests.
It is understandable that Malaysian Operators try to avoid a leakage of their crew abroad and as consequence have no interest in facilitating their mobility. A modern Malaysian licence suit them perfectly.
On contrary private students who are investing their own money have to get opened a maximum of opportunities and a JAR licence is certainly of better value on the International market, and can be converted in Malaysian licence.
I have the example of Malaysian JAR licence bearer joining MAS after conversion in a Malaysian school. The father choice was done in order to give the maximum of chances to his son....

So whats this organisation you belong to? Any name or website?
No offense, but you seriously do sound like a conmen.

JAR FTOs,

The examinations are set by UK CAA INTERNATIONAL and not UK-CAA. Please check this important point.

I know the different and aware of that ......... Yes I am the holder of CAA(UK) INTERNATONAL SERVICES certificates and my ATPL was issued by Malaysian DCA. Do I have any problem with that elsewhere? I am afraid NOT AT ALL ........

It is a new Malaysian Licence close to JAR but not JAR.

Be it JAR or step-JAR, it does not matter, its the credibility of the issuance agency that counts ....... Do you think a legacy carrier will look twice to a licence issued by authority in Indonesia or Philippines? ........

you have an ATPL with 1500 hours of multipilot aircraft experience, and in such a case employers give an equal opportunity to any licence however some employers do prefer a JAR one. Middle east Malaysians are experienced pilots with an ATP
- you are an ab-initio pilot. In such a case most countries protect their nationals, however in few countries like Middle East ones, you may have an opportunity: first, you have to convert your licence in a local one to be considered. If you are bearer of a JAR one it is very easy and very limited. Other Licences conversion are more heavily loaded. If you are a young flight instructor, you will have more opportunities if your licence is JAR.

Did I write earlier that EXPERIENCE counts? .......... NOT the licence !!!.....

Will a freshie get an 'equal' opportunity in a foreign land just because he is holding a JAR licence? I thought you guys (European + other westerners) are so particular about 'Right of Abode' .......

2- Wrong. Holding of an ICAO licence you can fly only aircraft registered in the Country of your licence. But as per Chicago Convention, you can fly those aircraft to any ICAO Countries. If you want to fly an aircraft registered in an other Country, it depends on bilateral agreements and as general rule a Licence Conversion is required. In case of leasing, a temporary licence may be issued by Country of the registered aircraft. My own experience: I am European, my Airlines (European) has leased some US B747 and I have flown them with a temporary FAA licence.

Which part of my statement is WRONG? Did I write 'SHOULD honour' or 'MUST honour' the licence conversion??? Please have a look again .......

I don't care whether the other country will issue me another licence on one-to-one basis or not but I do care whether I could fly the aircraft registered in that particular country. This could be done in either by issuing me a licence or a 'Permit To Fly' aka 'Temp Licence' ...... Both ways I could still fly an aircraft ....... Therefore, with my present licence, it makes no different compare to your 'highly regarded' JAR licence ........ Yes, I took CAA (UK) INTERNATIONAL SERVICES papers not JAR but I flew both Boeings and Airbuses without any problem both locally and internationally .......

On contrary private students who are investing their own money have to get opened a maximum of opportunities and a JAR licence is certainly of better value on the International market, and can be converted in Malaysian licence.
I have the example of Malaysian JAR licence bearer joining MAS after conversion in a Malaysian school. The father choice was done in order to give the maximum of chances to his son....

I do have a friend who tried to beautify his resume, paid thousands of GBP in order to get CAA (UK) not CAA (UK) INTERNATIONAL SERVICES, came back to Malaysia, did not accepted by MAS but landed with a job at another outfit, spent thousands of GBP again every year to maintain the validity of UK licence (medical + airfare to fly to/from UK and hire a plane + check airmen, hotels etc)..... Does it make sense? .........

It is sooooo simple mate, get a licence locally (not necessarily JAR), get as much experience as you can and you are marketable when you have reached the threshold hours. Even your 'Mickey Mouse' licence will be accepted and converted if you have the quality that an airline wants ......... It works before and it will not change soon ...........

Remember ........ EXPERIENCE counts NOT the LICENCE ........


The Unlearned