Firqin wrote:mosumo,

First of all I don't really admire your english. Should polish that up a bit.

Do you mean a tyre, or a wheel?

Anyway, would you drive a car without 1 of its 4 tyres? I wouldn't, let alone fly an aircraft without one.
And I have never seen or heard of an aircraft being airworthy when a tyre is missing.

owh...sorry guys. an aircraft wheel!! LOL.

-- Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:03 pm --

torx wrote:mosumo,
There is a difference between a TYRE and a WHEEL

Anyway, until this point of time, I have not come across any aircraft being dispatched/released without one wheel installed under any circumstances. Although there are incidences, infact I clearly remember one whereby the whole inner cylinder of one of the main landing drops off (which includes the brake and wheel assembly) prior landing. Happened in Subang... but thats landing without one landing gear!

Clearly you made the assumption based on your 'observation'.. The tyre could have blow out/ruptured during the landing roll...?
Since you have stressed out that "YES it is possible.", please shed us some light.. I don't see it how.

One the same note, if, I mean a BIG IF an aircraft can be released without one wheel, the low cost airlines might use the opportunity to further 'cut cost'..no specific airline/s is target here..

So it was probably because of the wheel may had gone during landing roll? Then my next question is : How does the wheel is secured in that particular a/c (330) ?

Ok i get what you mean but what IF I say , that thing was really happened? - releasing the aircraft without one of it's main wheels? maybe this Q is rather funny (LOL), but weird thing can happen in aviation. Any comment?

Back to your inquiry that refers to my statement : "YES it is possible".., I guess (not TEKA, more to saya rasa) it was done purposely. So I also don't see how. :D

At that time I did't see any problem with that aircraft during landing roll, somehow when it came nearer I noticed the incident. If the wheel had gone during landing roll, why there was like nothing happen in the airport? I mean everything was normal as usual, the surrounding.

About low cost airlines will take advantage on that 'opportunity', I totally disagree because this particular aircraft had no passengers on board, at all.

-- Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:07 pm --

BTW, I am not talking about A CAR.

This is an aircraft with a bogie type main landing gear with 4 wheels each.

How can we drive a car with one 'tire' gone? LOL.

-- Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:13 pm --

drebarbas wrote:Torx,

Change the wheel and replace it with a skid bar, just like heli and we could categorised as newly invented 'HANDICAPPED' friendly aircraft ...........

No MEL is required for dispatch, pre-flt check - good condition and well 'greased' - KY or Vaseline are acceptable .....


The Unlearned

yeah...go and get the Raja Lawak form at your nearest? If you dislike this thread, IF, you can bother others. Successful joker

I dedicated the post to TORX, not YOU ..........

Go and mirror yourself whether I am a joker or YOU are the one.......


The Unlearned

mosumo,
First thing first.
Wheels are part of the autobrake and antiskid systems.
Within the wheels there are transducer per wheel that sense wheel spin up and speed(rotation) sending electrical signals to the computer, in this case to the BSCU(Brake Steeering Control Unit). If one wheel is not installed, you have to render the systems inoperative. The pilot has to do manual braking.

Releasing and aircraft without a wheel is NOT possible as it is not covered for certification in any of the approved documents.. eg. AMM, MEL even CDL.

In the absence of relevant approved documents, you need the regulatory approval, in this case a DISPENSATION to release the aircraft. The regulatory body would also refer to the manufacturer for advice. Would AIRBUS allow their aircraft to be operated minus one wheel? I don't think so. The insurance company won't agree and cover this. Now, who's going to take the risk and cover if there are incidences?
Also, knowing the regulatory processes, they would NOT give one.Why should they? It is easier(and faster) for the operator to get a loan wheel unit. Buy one, what the heck!

EVEN if getting the dispensation is possible(terribly remote I'd say) the final say is from the Pilot/Commander if he wants to take the aircraft or not. Surely there would be changes to the aircraft behaviour/handling during landing subject to weather conditions and the landing strip itself.(Remember, it's manual braking now..) No pilot I know have been trained to land an aircraft with one wheel missing..!

As far as I'm concerned a deliberate release of aircraft with one wheel not installed is NOT POSSIBLE. I certainly will not compromise safety. Period.

Maybe someone else have a different view/opinion?

drebarbas, take it easy bro..!

drebarbas, or busdriver

oh your post is dedicated to torx? i read line by line and i don't skip posts. PM function is integrated within and use it to PM torx.

no hard feeling bro, i just have learned from you.


Well done torx , a brief explaination to members. Why i started this thread? Because from an observation (does not mean that i am 'NEW' to aircraft) - we can elaborate it to something more valuable. Yes there are members with well-educated with air leg. and aircraft systems and be warned that there are also 'new comers' who are eager and passionate to learn some new things in their life - People that have never got any chance to step in an apron or ramp like they used to enter a shopping complex. They only might have been watching aircraft from distance. Don't be surprise if you (people working with a/c) show them a photo of biggest flying a/c in the world from a close view, - they'll impressed.

Yes somehow , sometimes a discussion may sound SILLY or FUNNY and a lot of questions out there are DAMN SUPER DUPER FUNNY. What you gonna tell if people ask you what is a landing gear (some may have thought it is like a CAR transmission - which is used to be called in our culture as a GEAR?

How many gears (transmission) does an aircraft have? 10 GEARS? because they are so fast during take off!!

A man looking at an airbus 320 photo and simply ask, "where is the engine? It is link to the wheels?


BAck to the topic - the particular 330 (it wasnt MAS) remains as such a 'mysterious' scenario for me, as I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Ok, the Aircraft would have been dispatched with everything intact. Answer to this topic ----->

Nuff said..

Plausible.. but, if it(the wheel) were installed correctly as per the maintenance manual, which it should in the first place, no reason why it should drops off..

Chuck Norris ate the wheel... then supported its landing without anyone knowing.

case solved.
~end of thread~

From my reliable CSI sources:

The A330 was a Jet Airways aircraft, came to MAS Subang for maintenance.
After completion of maintenance, released to service, on first few days or after a few sectors (flying somewhere in their own country) during one of the transits the said wheel assembly was found in unsatisfactory condition (what this conditionwas nobody knows as they did not release any pictures).
They took off the wheel assembly and found damage to the axle also. They tried to blame MAS for improper wheel installation, but no proof.
So maybe under warranty, they flew the aircraft back to MAS to repair - with the proper authority of course to fly with 1 wheel missing and the entire flight with the gears remaining down.

Sith happens...

Since it's a Jet Airways aircraft, our Malaysian DCA have no authority over it, hence with Indian DCA they got away flying under 'dispensation' either Ferry Flight or ATP (Authority to Proceed) conditions as the C of A (Certificate of Airworthiness)is now invalid. How they got away with it, is good to know!
The damaged axle may require rework and axle replacement is faster but costly(to MAS at least).
Improper wheel installation? How hard can that be? Even 'Murphy' will have a hard time trying to mess up a simple job like a wheel installation!

Thanks for the update.

yes. it was the Jet Airways.

i've got the photo of it from somebody.

odd thing that is real. never assume something to 'drop off' really easy.